Sheffield Wednesday Banter Archive November 30 2013

30 Nov 2013 19:48:23
It's not just Jones that's damaging the club you've also got to look at Milan for allowing it to get to this mess. Us real fans who know football have been saying since last season that while ever Jones is in charge he will only damage the club with his shocking signings, shocking tactics, playing players out of position and unfair treatment of some of the players. His excuses after each and every game are laughable and his passion is non existent. Yet still people come on here to defend him. You mouth off at us for telling the truth about Jones and refer to us as negative and not real fans. How can anyone who defends Jones and wants him to continue as manager of SWFC after what he's done to this club class themselves as Wednesday fans? If you were real fans like us you'd want us to win games not lose every week like we do, keep a clean sheet every week instead of still searching for our first one nearly half way through the season. You would want the players to play in the position that they've played in since being a kid not chucked in at the deep end without a clue of what to do. You would also like us real Wednesday fans you would want a manager that knows how to spot a good player in the transfer market that will improve our displays on the pitch, not players who when they join are either simply not good enough or don't get an opportunity which makes the signing of the player totally pointless and a drain on the limited finances at our disposal. While ever you continue to back Jones and his bad management you are favoring failure over success. The displays, results and league table doesn't lie.

Just been looking at the clubs Milan has been involved with during his football career

The post above is absolute spot on

ONLY he can change things either he wants to invest in a new manager and give him backing in January

Or we are going backwards to the dark days

We have been slagged off for daring to challenge the saviour of Sheffield Wednesday

I will tell all you loyal Milan Mandaric fans he is no such thing he is only interested in himself, profit and then more profit

Even you Ponty Owl are now doubting the strategy and the management of our team

We the fans will be the saviour of the once great club, we are were we are next to bottom of the league and we will still be here long after Milan & Jones have gonr

Nice one. mik, watchin Owls since 1955.

I agree, no wonder the team lacks motivation the downcast manner in which Jones conducts his interviews is replicated in his teams displays.

I couldn't agree more, today we were dire yet again. The players looked terrified to mess up, the manager looked like he knows his job is gone already. I am not for chopping and changing which is why I hoped that support, confidence and time would do DJ some good but I honestly think enough is enough.

As for MM, we still have to agree to disagree because there is much, much more to it and more going on behind the scenes than appears but I totally understand why people are fed up.

As for not being a real fan, I've been a season ticket holder since a boy with the only break being while I was actually playing myself. I took my first FA coaching course at 16/17 as a YTS scheme player or whatever it was called back then and I'm slowly working my way through the badges now since hanging the boots up, alongside doing a degree in sport and sports management. I was never a top, top player but I've had my moments in professional football over the years at a lower level. So all in all I'm not in any way an expert manager, I'm a youth team coach and that is all I ever want to do within the game and in schools but I know enough about football to second guess aspects of what is going on in the club.

I'm glad we can agree on some things, the fans are the heart of our club and all opinions have to be valued.

Just to add a quick note to my post. I can understand the fans who question why MM is taking out loans to fund transfers, I can understand those on the other hand who want him to spend even more (of his own money rather than in the form of loans) on transfers. Aside from the fact that at the past AGM we found out that MM paid over £350k (or should I say sanctioned) on agents fees, aside from the known, irrefutable evidence of the investment behind the scenes and the building of the development squad (again I can understand those who would rather see short term investment in the first team over long term investment in the youth structure).

I read the Deloitte report for this season on the financial state of English football with an eye on what will happen with the new fair play regs. On paper, based on 2011 disclosed financial information only five Championship clubs broke even or made a profit, the rest (some staggeringly) made losses. Of clubs still benefitting from parachute payments from relegation in previous seasons from the Premier League only Hull City and West Ham were promoted back to the Premier League with the aid of parachute payments in the past three years. One staggeringly alarming example is that of QPR who would stand to lose around £68m by way of fines, or to put that into perspective they would lose most if not all of the extra revenue of being promoted to the top flight.

One particularly alarming finding is this: "In the Championship the situation is more severe: the wages to revenue ratio has hovered threateningly at around 90% since 2007/08, with operating losses once again reaching record levels. For many years the division has struggled financially – the combination of clubs adjusting to the impact of relegation from the Premier League and others aspiring to achieve promotion, has now delivered almost a decade of ever increasing operating losses. Championship clubs continue to spend 30% more than they generate – a clearly unsustainable position without owner benefaction, a source of funds upon which the Football League is trying to reduce its member clubs’ dependence. "

Without the full financial figures from the Owls it's hard to really judge just what the profit/loss situation is/has been but I honestly can believe at least some of what MM says about how much the club loses, or at least believe that the figure will be a large one. With new fair play rules the club cannot lose more than specific limits, reducing year on year and as things stand the owner must personally pay any loss about the deviation to avoid sanctions.

So, all in all I can understand why any chairman would now be trying to be diligent with the funds, especially one who wants to sell on his club and avoid any further negative impact by way of sanctions. On the other hand, those who say MM can't afford to let the club get relegated are plain wrong. The figures and findings prove it. The Championship is a damn expensive league to compete in, and without the exception of five or so clubs (Barnsley for example) is a loss making league for the competing clubs, there is no question about it. So fans who think that shirt sales, pies and tickets magically pay the bills are plain wrong, Deloitte know their stuff and I am inclined to believe them.

Sorry for the long post again, I'm just trying my hardest to shed some light on the actual goings on behind the scenes and the position of MM. Not because I'm his accountant or because I'm a die hard MM fan but because half of the tripe I read on this, blaming him for what is going in has some truth in it but it also needs looking at from a realistic point of view.

Bloody Hell Ponty Lad I hope thee foot gets better soon!

We are all feeling the pain of what's going wrong at Wednesday, maybe we don't fully understand the financial implications of football, but we're not accountants

What we do know is Dave Jones has got football qualifications but he is making a complete mess and his decisions baffle all of us and most importantly the players

His whole demeanour his body language says he's a dead man walking he's lost the players and the fans are on his back

Look up Milan on Wickipedia and see all the clubs he's had involvement with
He is NOT a Wednesdayite like we are, he's not been stood in the rain and snow on the open kop, he's not been there when we have had a glory days and he won't be here as soon as he's made his pound of flesh out of selling us
Do us all a favour and put your good foot up
Right up DJ's fat a*** and let's get our beloved Wednesday moving in the right direction
Here's hoping we get a new manager for Christmas

Ponty lad, the opening of your follow up post says just a "quick note"!
some great insight there but you clearly have too much time on your hands at the moment. Anyway would be interested in your views on suitable and realistic replacements should dj finally go. Names mentioned previously don't really inspire me too much (di canio, Pearce, carbone, Holloway). Of these only hollyway has the right experience but would he come? Final thought, martin jol may be available soon but can't see him dropping down to our level. Guess thus leaves the door open for you mate! NB

Haha hasn't my poor foot been through enough with being stuck up that miserable so and so?

Yeah it's true that MM is not a die hard fan like us, it's probably true that he is more concerned with making a profit when he sells the club on but my point is not to believe the rubbish about him telling lies about the club losing money, or believe that the fans money is enough to generate a profit that he is somehow filtering out of the club. Deloitte are pretty clear that most clubs are losing hand over fist each year regardless of who owns the clubs or where they finish in the league or even if they are promoted and that fair play sanctions are making it even tougher on chairmen who either have to personally pay off the debt each year above the allowed limit or the club is hit with fines that simply add to the debt. The Premier League and FA need to seriously assess the distribution of wealth from TV rights and so on.

This is where MM is open to criticism though, if he had a vast personal fortune and he truly wants to push the club on and be seen as a real fan with the clubs best interests at heart he could perhaps plow a lot more personal wealth in. Something the FA are keen not to happen mind.

As for his other previous clubs, I've not really looked at their books, debt, structure, performance before or after so I can't comment I'm afraid other than agree that MM making a profit on each club after stepping in either shows that he is an astute business man or that, like you said, he sells off the family silver to do so. Can't comment on that one without really looking into it though.

Anyone else sat watching the sport news channel in a hope that DJ is a gonner or are we expecting a decision after the Leicester loss, ahem I mean game?

Haha this stupid cage on my foot means I'm stuck in my chair with just the Internet, TV and radio to keep me going, sorry lads haha. What else have I got to do but spend a few hours contemplating our state eh? Ill stop soon don't worry haha.

As for managers, off the top of my head here are a few replacements. Some of them are in work, some not. Some of them are way beyond our means financially, some of them may fancy a project to rebuild their managerial careers. God only knows but here you go:


Dennis Bergkamp
George Burley
Alan Curbishley
Roberto Di Matteo
Alex McLeish
Peter Reid
Glenn Roeder
Ole Gunnar Solskjær
Roland Nilsson
Neil Warnock
Avram Grant

Any of them float your boat?

Interesting list although I doubt half of them would drop below the premiership and several have turned down prem jobs. Nielsson probably best option or MacLeish but if avram grant came heaven help those that think dj is not inspirational! Obviously cost will be a big factor so unlikely to bring in a manager currently in a job. O'drisscol was mentioned some time ago but done a poor job at bristol. Think this is part of our current problem there doesn't seem an obvious replacement but having said that we couldn't do any worse at the moment if we had no manager. At least we can look forward to loads of derbies next season in league 1. NB

Roeder, McLeish and Curbishley would probably look at Chamionship jobs if the job was right for them as they have done in the past but I honestly can't see any of them wanting it. Warnock would probably burst into flames if he were to sit in the dugout. Looking at other people who have taken jobs in the league like Michael Appleton and Henning Berg fills me with dread haha.

If money were no object and knowing that we are on a beating to nothing this season as it stands I'd like to see Gary Neville be given a few years to make the step up from coach with England. Unproven yes but I don't doubt that he has the experience as a player and with England as a coach to become a manager one day. Plus he has a bit of a soft spot for us (as does Sir Alex apparently) and could probably swing a few loans from Man U. He can bring David Watson with him as coach from the England set up too if he wants, he was a decent young keeper before injury ruined his playing career and Barnsley let him go, he's become an integral part of the England coaching set up since even though he is still young enough to be playing. Cloud cuckoo land thinking all this though haha and probably wouldn't go down to well with the faithful.

Think Gary Neville would be a great appointment, he clearly knows his stuff, must have picked up some tips from fergy and could attract some players. Would like to give him time even if we went down, think any manager would perform better if pressure of immediate situation was removed from them. NB

30 Nov 2013 19:36:08
Two goals from Mag for Coventry. We loaned him out without playing him this season,. well since the summer. Another pathetic clueless decision from management. Not just jones,. management.
However, If it was just jones pulling all the strings we would have Kirkland behind the counter in the club shop and sue from the programme booth taking the corners. So I suppose not as bad as it could be, but then give sue a chance I say.

30 Nov 2013 18:00:44
Please not Stuart Pearce he turned a talented group of lads (u21's) from finalist to not getting out of the group

I have to agree on not being keen on SP. He is highly qualified, has tons of valuable experience at the top, top level as a player and manager but is still a bit unproven and green for me. He needs to get a chance to prove his worth somewhere and I hope he does but our situation needs someone with a proven track record and tactical knowledge, from what I saw when I was at Old Trafford for Team GB I wouldn't pick SP for the job of our next manager either. Sorry Stu.

30 Nov 2013 17:03:51
Also McGuire comes off bench on his first appearance for Coventry an scores the winner for them like the guy but maybe he'll progress his career further being away from Hillsboro as our deluded manager don't like him n won't give the guy a half chance in the team good luck McGuire

30 Nov 2013 14:12:37
Msg to all players time to man up, step up and stop taking the fans for granted its our shirt prove you are fit to wear it. 3 points today a must.

Well just on our way home from Blackpool

Magiure has scored for Coventry

PLEASE Milan get shut of Jones tonight because on this form we are definitely down

New Manager New Ideas New Enthusiasm

30 Nov 2013 06:17:08
Apparently this is fryatts last game today. So it really makes sense to let Maguire an lavery go on lone dun it. Now ow we got a lone player in whickham plus niahu. we've bin cryin out for a decent striker for nearly 2 seasons an this is wot we're left with. Mind you we've got plenty of injured defenders!